Friday, October 31, 2008

Gay Marriage

It’s with slight trepidation that I write this. I’m almost certain that my main argument and the overall point of this article will raise more than one eyebrow (of the conservative variety), but my feelings on this subject are of sufficient strength that I’m gonna write it anyway.


I’ve been planning this entry for awhile. Making mental notes and tossing the idea around, but up until now I haven’t felt seriously motivated to work on it. I can’t tell whether this is due to laziness on my part or if it God just didn’t want it up yet. That’s a moot point, though.

Gay Marriage is one of those hot buttons. It’s an issue that gets lobbed around like a volleyball, much in the same way that Abortion and The Economy do. I’ve been surprised (but not disappointed) by the lack of overall comment on the matter from the two presidential candidates, as I know it’s a big concern for a lot of people.

But what I can’t figure out is why. Why is this important? Why are we talking about it?

Let’s start with the Bible. It’s there that we find our Religious roots, so why the hell not.

Leviticus 18:22 says, “Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: it is abomination”.

Okay, cool. That’s fairly straight forward. But that’s Old Testament, and as we all know, Old Testament law doesn’t hold a lot of sway over the modern Christian. If it did we’d be demolishing our houses as a means of combating persistent mildew (Leviticus 14:45) and we wouldn’t be allowed to eat shrimp (www.godhatesshrimp.com). Besides, we all know that Jesus died to forgive us for being imperfect, and to nullify the fact that we simply can’t follow all the Old Testament rules.

So let’s go to the New Testament. There’s lots of verses there, right? Surely some of them must be about homosexuality.

Romans 1:26-27 talks about it as being a bad thing, as does 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. Paul wrote those books, and Paul was a good guy. We all like Paul. There are other verses that touch on the matter as well, so clearly it’s of SOME significance.

Alright, so it’s in the Old and New Testaments. Let’s take a look at what Jesus said about it. Jesus is the reason for this whole Christianity thing, after all, so he must have said something about an issue that is obviously so very, very important.



Oh wait.


Jesus never talked about homosexuality. Or if he did it’s not in any of the four gospels.

This is where it gets interesting for me. Jesus came to free us from our sin, and from the obligation of Old Testament law, or at least that’s how I understand it. That doesn’t mean that we can do whatever we want – we’re still called follow God’s guidelines for our lives and live as good, decent people, in harmony with God and one another, and-

Okay stop. Harmony. Toss that word around in your brain while we continue.

I once heard (or rather, read) someone say that Christians have an obligation to “stand up against injustice” and cited Abortion and Homosexual Rights as examples.

Now it gets technical, and I’ll try not to divert too much from the main point; what is injustice?

–noun
1. the quality or fact of being unjust; inequity.
2. violation of the rights of others; unjust or unfair action or treatment.
3. an unjust or unfair act; wrong.

Okay, cool. Thank God for Dictionary.com.

Now, Abortion I can understand. That I can see as injustice, or unjust, if you want. It’s a complicated issue, but I understand completely one defining Abortion as injustice. But “homosexual rights”?

I’m sorry, but what kind of self created world do you have to live in where another person’s personal lifestyle, a person who you’ve never met nor have anything to do with, effects you to a degree that you refer to it as an “injustice”?

I should word this carefully, so as not to be misunderstood – I disagree with the homosexual lifestyle. I don’t think it’s right, I don’t think it’s natural, and I don’t think God gives you the thumbs up if that’s how you choose to live.

But that’s just my opinion, and whether or not another person is attracted to the opposite sex is none of my business. It’s also not yours, your pastor’s, nor your church’s.

But we’re not talking about a LIFESTYLE choice, right? We’re talking about marriage. Marriage is a sacred institution, a contract between a man and a woman and God and the state, and marriage means different rules when it comes to taxes, and insurance policies, and bank accounts, and-

Stop again. Shut up. Stop.

I’d like to quote Lewis Black.

“On the list of things we have to worry about, Gay Marriage is on page six right after, ‘are we eating too much garlic as a people?’”


We live in a screwed up world. Two percent of the population controls half of the planet’s wealth. The AIDs epidemic is ravaging the African continent. Vietnam veterans are starving to death on our own streets, and public school teachers can lose their jobs for admitting that they believe in God.

And you’re pissed off because Bill and Ted want to be husbands?

This is my opinion, my main point:

Gay marriage affects three very specific groups of people, and no one else.

1) Gay couples.
2) Ministers who have to choose whether or not they’re comfortable marrying a gay couple.
3) People with too much time on their hands.


If you want something to protest, protest the fact that forty-million Americans can’t afford health care. Protest the fact that an African child dies every five seconds due to starvation. Protest the fact that the church can’t get its priorities straight.

Make a difference. Love someone. Do something that would make Jesus proud, instead of using his name as an excuse to throw a fit every time someone does something that you don’t like. Do something that furthers a culture of harmony in modern society.

I don’t believe we were ever called to tell other people how to live their lives or who they can and can not marry. I believe our calling is far more simplistic, and were we to champion it as opposed to all these other causes and crusades, Christianity would probably be held in a much higher regard within secular society.

“Love one another” (John 13:34-35, 15:12, and 15:17)

That’s something that Jesus DID talk about.




Special thanks to www.godhatesshrimp.com (read the “about” section of this site), Google, and Dictionary.com.

Agree, disagree, anything in between. Fire away. If I’ve misquoted scripture or gotten any facts wrong feel free to correct them. Also, the rules have not changed – keep it civil.


(PS – Someone said this to me once, and I wanted to throw it in here. Would you rather have a heterosexual son who sleeps with a different woman every night, or a homosexual son who sleeps with the same man every night?)

23 comments:

Terri G said...

I don't agree with the homosexual lifestyle at all. I believe that it is wrong and NOT what God wants to see. However, it is an expression of love, and I'm conviced He'd rather see a lot more love in this world than the hate that seems to be running rampant.

In the end, it is not my place to judge.

jsmith2585 said...

I think Christian's need to stop getting all worked up over things that don't affect people learning who Jesus really is. It's true, many people are wasting their time and all that's really happening is that gay people feel that Jesus hates them. the people that cause these feeling should be sued for defaming the character of Jesus. Jesus dislikes lying, or cheating, just as much as he dislikes Homosexuality No more.

Joyce said...

Some of my best friends are homosexual. I find that most homosexuals are really good, honest, loving people. I do not judge them for their sexual lifestyle. I befriend them for the kind of person they have become. I believe that homosexual tendencies are determined by genetics or sometimes by events in life, and therefore we are not responsible for ours sexual desires. However, we ARE responsible for our sexual actions regardless if we are homosexual or heterosexual.
I like to look at it this way: When Paul spoke of "unnatural" sexual behavior he was condemning homosexual acts by heterosexuals. Although, it seems unfair for God to place such a burden on us to have us deny our own sexual desires, there are people in this sinful world who carry a wide variety of burdens regardless of their sexual preference.
Jesus once said, "if you are tired from carrying heavy burdens, then take the yoke I give you and put it on your shoulders, and learn from me" {Matthew 11:28-29}
To me this means that each person is to interpret their own sexual desires, regardless if we are homosexual or heterosexual, and it is up to that person to determine how they will handle it.
With that said, “Judge not and you will not be judge”…it is not up to humans to judge homosexual lifestyles. God will take those who are worthy of him, regardless of their sexual lifestyle.

likewhoaaamanda said...

i've been taught in every single religion class ive ever taken, even in the ones at my preppy private school that i attended for 13 years that the quote from the bible you referred to about homosexuality was not in the original bible. it was added by king james when he had it translated.

Aaron said...

That's one I've definitely never heard before. I'm gonna research that, because it that's true then, I mean, wow. I dunno. Thanks for the response guys. Keep it coming!

erik_toft said...

This is truly difficult...and that is precisely why it is such a controversy. I will probably ramble a little...or a lot, but will try to be fairly concise.

Homosexual action is a sin simply because it is sex outside of marriage...just as is sleeping with a different woman each night. Both are sin.

God defined and ordained the institution of marriage, and blesses marriage. He condemns homosexual activity. He condemns sex outside of marriage. Jesus speaks against sin, and specifically names the ten commandments as being God's will for us. Sex outside of marriage is covered under the 6th commandment.

Now that the definitions are out of the way... We are called to recognize the sin and condemn the action. Do we stop loving the person, the homosexual, or adulterer...or liar...or thief...etc? Never!

We are called to action by the sin, whether in ourselves or in others. Sin is allowing or causing our own will to superceed God's will. The Bible goes to great length to identify sin...the books of Law...the commandments...even the command to love thy neighbor...are all Gods law and we are commanded to obey. Quite literally everything that WE want, of our own will alone, is sin...not because the thing or action is inherently bad or sinfull...but because it arises only from our will for ourselves.

To be without sin, our will...which does remain free...must be completely aligned with God's will. This has only taken place in the life of three people in history...Adam, Eve and Jesus. Adam and Eve were created out of God's will alone, as sinless people, in a sinless world. God gave them free will, but a will that originally aligned completely with His will. They were tempted, and they succumbed. They let their will override God's will, and thereby led the world into sin. All humans since, except Jesus, have been created out of the selfish will of a man and a woman. Yet God still promises to bless us, and be with us when we seek Him...he makes it possible for us to seek Him, and to come back to Him by believing in the attoning sacrifice of His son Jesus.

It is impossible for us to live without sin. God condemns and abhors all sin...God is completely seperated from sin.

Jesus was not conceived from the will of a man, nor the will of His mother...He was conceived because of God's will alone, and Mary's willing yet unwillfull compliance with His will. With God, not man, as the source of His will, God's will remained with Jesus throughout His life because he never allowed His own will to override the will of His Father. But even then, His will was free, and He was subject to temptation. Scripture shows that he did not yield to temptation in the desert, and it shows that Jesus freely submitted His will to the Father in the garden of Gethsemane, and on the Cross. Jesus was sent to earth to provide the one and only path out of sin. Jesus death on the cross is the only satisfactory attonement for our inability to align our will with the Father's.

We must strive to submit our will to the Father even though we know that we cannot perfectly obey...we are commanded to strive (in Biblical terms - confess and repent). At the same time we know that Jesus sacrifice on the cross delivers us and cleanses us completely from those sins which we have committed, confessed, and repent of.

We are called out of His Love, to love one another above all else. This calls us to lead others away from sin and back to God's will...back to true love, which is only from Him. It calls us to show them their sin, and relieve them of it's burdon by telling them that it was lifted, once and for all, by Christ's sacrifice. And to show them that we are all sinfull, but striving to be sinless: That we all act apart from God's will, but pray that he will redeem our sins and make even the worst of our mistakes achieve His will in a world that tries to deny Him.

God is the source of true love. God's will is His true love for us. Homosexual behavior...and ALL sin is seperated from His will...from His true love. It would be an injustice if we allow people to continue to delude themselves...to lie to themselves...to decieve themselves...by referring to such a union as marriage. You see it is not an injustice that they want to pretend to be married. It is only unjust when Christians also pretend that it is ok, or look the other way. That is the injustice that we must seek to prevent.

I hope that all understand that this is written by a sinner, to sinners. I am not a called nor ordained minister. I have asked God's help, and permission in preparing and sending this message. And I believe that He has guided me.

I pray that I have said only what He wished for me to say. May He have mercy on me for any departure from what He has commanded and that He will send His Spirit to you for proper guidance where I have failed Him.

This I pray in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Amen.

Murex Brandaris said...

Yeah I don't get the "gay lifestyle" thing. I for one don't believe in the "black lifestyle".

Every gay person I've ever talked to tells me that it's not a choice they make. It's ingrained in them, not as a result of outside factors, but as something they simply have, somewhere in their brains or bodies or physical makeup. And to see that as wrong, by that logic, is saying God's work is wrong. Sorry if I'm stepping on toes here, but if it's something that is naturally occuring as seems incredibly likely, it's part of nature and therefore God's will. Unless Satan has started the whole creating life thing in which case we may be well and truly screwed.

And I would like to emphasize how right A.J. is about certain parts of the Bible simply not being applicable in this day and age.

Like Neil Patrick Harris said: "I'm in love, and I want it to matter."

erik_toft said...

Murex,

What you are describing is known as relativism which denies that there is any absolute truth in the world. This is Satan's primary tool. It is the lie he used to deceive Adam and Eve. If I may paraphrase...Satan's original lie began with a question...did God really say that you should not eat from this tree? I tell you that if you eat from this tree, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God. This tactic is still used today, and very effectively, to lead well meaning people away from his will.

If you ask a pedophile why they do the things they do, they will also tell you that they feel that it is completely natural to them...they don't feel that they have a choice...they fell compelled by their very nature. Does that make their actions OK? The same is true of compulsive liars, kleptomaniacs, etc.

The truth is "we have all sinned and fall short of the Glory of God". That includes you and ME. This is because sin has already entered the world and we are born into that sin. Sin has altered and perverted the original natural state...the world we experience is a corrupted version of it's original perfection.

We live in what is called Satan's little season...a time when Satan does rule the world. Scripture attests to this...Satan offered to give Jesus dominion over every nation. To give that away he must first have or at least be able to claim dominion over it. Dominion however does not imply total possession...just control.

Do I know THE truth, the WHOLE Love of God, His perfect will? No. No one does. He commands you (and I) to seek first His kingdom, and then all things will be added to you. Seeking His kingdom implies that it is NOT readily accessible in our natural experience. This is because sin has corrupted what is natural, and obscures what is true. That includes corruption of natural desire. Everything we experience is a tainted, corrupted version of how He created man and the world. This includes our "natural" sexual desires.

If you are willing to consider that there is one and only one objective truth, and that it is not relative to the experience of each individual then you may be able to see glimpses of the TRUE Love of God, and His true will for your life.

I pray that all who read this will recieve it with an open mind, and will consider seeking the Truth. This begins with an open minded look at the Bible...which is the Truth as He has chosen to reveal it to us. Being open minded about this includes being willing to consider that the Bible is truly the Word of God...written by men chosen for their faithfulness, and directly inspired by the Holy Spirit of God. Please pray. God sends His Spirit to all who are willing to speak to Him, and guides them. So even if you do not feel you know how to pray, or feel silly or uncomfortable, just know that He will hear your sincere requests. Believe it or not, the sincerity you feel is the Spirit working in you...the silliness and/or discomfort is Satan trying to keep you away from the Father.

Also, consider reading C.S. Lewis' book "The Screwtape Letters". It is funny, but has a message you will probably enjoy.

May the Lord bless your quest.

Captain Nigel said...

Erik, please do not disregard every opinion that does not coincide with yours. Relativism is fundamental in any society; to not accept people because of culture is widely known as racism. Not to mention the fact that the bible, as Joyce so kindly pointed out, says that we may not judge others, unless we ourselves are free of sin.
Oh. I suppose I did mention it.
I for one refuse to look down on people based on their lifestyle. Even if you make the assumption that homosexuality is a sin (and yes, AJ, I've previously researched it and that particular part came from the King James version), please take into account that Jesus spent more time amongst the sinners than he did amongst his own disciples.
To segregate yourself, and look down on an entire community of people based on the way they live their lives is called elitism, and I'd pick relativism over elitism any day of the week.
I am not a homosexual.
I am not a Christian proper, but I've read the bible back to front a hundred times, and I do believe in God.
There is ONE fundimental truth in the Christian Bible: If you take anything away from the Bible, it should be that Christ Jesus died to remove the burden of sin from his fellow man. He led Mary Magdalen to a better life.
He raised Lazarus, a drunk, from the dead. He did not discriminate, and as a Christian, should you not believe that if Jesus would not judge, you, too, should abstain?
"Christian" means "Little Christ" after all.
It's none of our places to condemn or condone homosexuality. As far as I can tell, nobody here is Pope, nor are they themselves homosexual. I'm inclined to agree with AJ; it's none of our business. That was the point in the blog: We have no reason to debate the ethics of homosexuality. NOT the start of a debate itself, more a question of why we care so much. I think we all kind of dropped the ball on this one, myself included. Apologies, AJ.

Murex Brandaris said...

If King James was the one who added that verse to the Bible, then it's King James who is the deceiver and tool of Satan, not me.

Of course it's not right for adults to have sex with children; the children can't truly consent to the activity. Full-grown adults of either gender, however, can. That's the same tired slippery-slope argument that's been used from the beginning. "Hey next it'll be people wanting to marry dogs, and then staplers!" No. It won't.

seannj427 said...

(((QUOTE HERE))) (PS – Someone said this to me once, and I wanted to throw it in here. Would you rather have a heterosexual son who sleeps with a different woman every night, or a homosexual son who sleeps with the same man every night?) (((END QUOTE)))

I'd rather have a son who follows scripture and listens to the leading of the Holy Spirit, as neither choice above is the biblical one.

Speaking of biblical choices, many of the practices that are forbidden in the Old Testament in Leviticus are in fact NOT GOOD FOR US. (Eating shellfish, pork, living in a moldy house, so on and so forth). Today we can get away with eating shrimp because we have ways of detecting disease, etc however it's known that shrimp is high in cholesterol and iodine. (too much iodine is not good for you)! At that point in time in biblical history, God spoke to the Isrealites and told them what they needed to hear through Moses. They needed strong laws to build a strong nation and that was part of God's plan at that time. However, does that mean that these rules that were setup in the torah are now wrong? No, IMHO they still matter. Homosexuality is no different in that homesexual men tend to be more promiscous than lesbian women...As we all know, promiscuity (homo or hetero) spreads disease faster and is a major issue, not to mention that buggerism itself presents it's own health challnges. (Yes I know, people can practice 'safe sex' but in the heat of the moment, is this always done?). Also if you were buliding a strong nation, would one not want many children? It seems to me, that just because of biology, that homosexuality/Lesbianism does not promote the birth of children, so this would be a problem and I think this was the way they attempted to address... So I take these ideas into account when reading the OT and NT entries.

Jesus proved by his actions here and His death and resurrection that God's love goes even past the law. It goes past tradition, it goes past socieital preference and it goes past earthly governments and rules. God's love for us is the greatest thing there is, and this is the message we need to keep in the forefront of our minds. Yes our world is seriously screwed up! However, every issue should be prioritized according to the impact it has. Feeding the hungry and ministering to the downtrodden is more important IMHO than worrying about someone who has homosexual tendancies, as strange as dealing with this issue can be for those of us who dont' get it. I'm not saying that living the homosexual lifestyle is biblically correct, but I am saying that God loves each of us for who we are and through His grace and peace, we can commune with Him and each other in love. Frankly if you haven't gone through a trial (of any kind), you really don't have any reference point ot understand what a person is going through who is dealing with any issue (substance addiction, mental illness, death of a spouse or child, loss of a job, etc etc). But we can still love that person and pray for them AND support them. Our prayer may differ depending on their actions but one part of our prayer should always be the same that is; "Dear Lord help me to be there for this person according to Your will".
-S
PS I had to throw this in here. In a non-western civ history class in college years ago, my professor told us that in the brothels of old (right after constantinople became turkey), that lesbianism was encouraged by the brothel masters. But was male homosexuaility encouraged? Nope in fact I believe that even today, Muslims take a very dim view of homosexual men. Maybe they have the right idea in that regard, or maybe they aren't 'evolved'. You decide.

Trey & Hannah said...

Homosexual marriage is not something to be blown off as "another sin." There is a major problem with homosexuality, but before I address it, let me address another misconception.

Do all the research you want, but if you find historical, non-biased information regarding the King James Version of the Bible, you will find that the KJV does have some added verses. But not as many as you would suspect. There are about 17 verses in the KJV that you will not find in modern translations. But remember, King James did not write the KJV translation. He simply authorized monks, scribes, and scholars to translate it. In 1611, there were limited resourses when it came to Scripture translation and the monks did the best they could. After over 1000 years of translation, there were some added words and verses in the original texts. (Remember, they were translated by imperfect humans!) Since KJV was written, older and therefore more accurate copies of Scripture have been found (for example the Dead Sea Scrolls). Modern translations use these transcripts now for translation. The New American Standard Version is regarded by many to be the most accuratly translated English Bible.

Now about homosexuality. Listen to this very carefully: God hates all sin - from a white lie to rape and murder. They are all unjust because they all separate us from the Creator of the universe. Make no mistake: homosexuality is a sin. (The passages you mentioned are in the original texts. And may I add Jude 7 as a verse that ties the Old Testament teachings with the New Testament truths.)

So why is homosexuality such a hot topic? Because it is being pushed into our culture. When alcohol was being pushed into our culture at an alarming rate in the 20's, people stood up and fought with the prohibition. When drugs were prominent in the 60's and 70's, we came back in the 80's and 90's with "Just Say Know." And now, with the sin of homosexuality, people are surprised that Christians are judging it.

((QUTOE))Gay marriage affects three very specific groups of people, and no one else.

1) Gay couples.
2) Ministers who have to choose whether or not they’re comfortable marrying a gay couple.
3) People with too much time on their hands.
((END QUOTE))

But drugs, alcohol, murder, rape - these are things that hurt others in society. Homosexuality is limited in who it affects. Nothing could be further from the truth. Homosexuality is more than just "sex outside of marriage", it is the opposite of what God created marriage to be. The #1 theme in all of Scripture is salvation through Christ Jesus. The #2 theme is marriage and family. And that is because it is marriage that is the living parable for Christ's salvation! The church is the bride of Christ and He is our Bridegroom. God gave us male and female to show us the relationship He so desires with us. Satan wishes us to believe that homosexuality is simply an act of love and therefore a beautiful thing. But homosexuality is a perversion of love and effects society by attacking the marriage union itself.

And if you don't think that sin affects you and I in society, think again. Time and time again in Scripture, we see God pouring judgment on nations because of sin: Sodom and Gommorah (Gen 19), Israel (Joshua 7 as one example), Babylon (Jeremiah 25:12-14), etc. But why would God punish everyone in a nation and not just the guilty? Continuing your thought in Romans, after Paul writes about God's judgment of a myriad of sins, he tells why they will be punished in Romans 1:32 - "and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but [emphasis mine] also give hearty approval to those who practice them."

Wow! So approval of sin makes you just as guilty as the ones committing the sin. May I never stand for the sin in American culture! And may you keep me accountable and call out my sins as well!

Trey & Hannah said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
seannj427 said...

"Wow! So approval of sin makes you just as guilty as the ones committing the sin. May I never stand for the sin in American culture! And may you keep me accountable and call out my sins as well!"
Yes we all need to keep each other accountable, that's very important. Yes we need to call sin for what it is, sin. Yes we need to reject all sin and do whatever we can do keep ourselves above reproach. This is all true.
However, Jesus is not only 100% truth, he is ALSO 100% grace. So HOW we approach someone makes all of the difference, no matter what they have done 'wrong'. We need to approach people with truce and grace in hand. And I use quotes only to underscore the point that it's God who judges not us. We know the rules, if we applaud and say "yay, so and so is a sinner" of course we're guilty by association. However acknowledging that someone has a thorn in their side (even Paul admitted to having one) and is trying to deal with it, versus, bashing them for having the thorn are different things. As I've posted ealier, our prayer should always be that we do whatever God wills to be done. "We're in the world, but not of the world". YOu can be right (all truth) but still push people away (by having zero grace).
On the contrary, being 100% grace and zero truth is not correct either, this having the effect of weakening our stance. Just because you're humble doesn't mean you're a whimp with zero principles.

-S

Aaron said...

I should clarify something, as it seems I've been misunderstood.

I am not trying to justify or excuse gay marriage or homosexuality. I know what the Bible says and I believe it.

My point is that we have bigger things to be concerned about, AS CHRISTIANS. If you prioritize gay marriage over world hunger, health care, and even the general bad reputation of the church, then my recommendation is that you reassess you priorities. We all have our causes and callings - God has a discontent for everyone, and each is called to address said discontent. The problem here is that Gay Marriage and Abortion are only two issues, and they seem to be garnering all of our attention. Ironically enough, it's these two issues where we often make the biggest fools out of ourselves. Have we ever been called stupid, ignorant or old fashioned for sending food to Africa? Have we ever been looked down upon for running a soup kitchen? Volunteering at a homeless shelter? Sponsoring mobile medical facilities or sponsoring children in third world countries?
The answer is a resounding No, and my greatest frustration lies in that we can't seem to understand that.

The message of this entry was simply this - we have more important things to worry about. Perhaps I should have been more clear.

Aaron said...

Also, Sean, I agree with you 100%(your comment apparently dropped as I was posting mine).

erik_toft said...

Aaron,

I apologize if I misunderstood the topic, or if I "hijacked" the discussion. I thought you were suggesting that everyone, including the Church, ought to take an approach of indifference/apathy.

To others who seem to have misunderstood me:

I thought I had made it plain that I do not judge, nor condemn anyone. Please consider things that I have already written:

-- "I hope that all understand that this is written by a sinner, to sinners."

-- "We are called to recognize the sin and condemn the action. Do we stop loving the person, the homosexual, or adulterer...or liar...or thief...etc? Never!"

I am as sinful as any homosexual, liar, thief, murderer, or even pedophile. I have my own issues, my own cross to bear. I sin every day of my life. I deserve nothing less than eternal death. I don't think that I can be any more direct than that.

My (and your) comfort and hope is in the promise of the Gospel; That my sin, confessed and repented, was destroyed when Christ carried it to hell. This gift is available to everyone. That is what I have attempted to convey in previous posts.

If I said that I know a secret way to salvation that I will not share with you...that would be exclusive and elitist.

The opposite would be to declare that there is a simple path to salvation, available to all for free, and introducing that path to anyone who is willing to listen and consider it. Now you can be the judge...of what I'm telling you...not of me.

May the grace of the Lord be with all who read this, and may His Spirit guide us all to a closer relationship with Him. Amen.

Erik T.

Aaron said...

Erik,

No need to apologize. Your opinion is as valid as anyone else's, and the entire purpose of this blog is to get us talking. I probably should have done a better job of driving my point home in this entry. THANK YOU for your input and for fostering the discussion.

seeJesusnotalfred said...

I am sorry to say that I think you have missed a very important point: Jesus himself DID MENTION MARRIAGE. He said the following in Matthew 19:4-7, "4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made[a]them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’[b] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?[c] 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.” Jesus spoke these words--quoting from Genesis 2:24.

If you really think Paul is such a great guy (as I do), perhaps when he says in Ephesians 5:28-31, "28 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. 30 For we are members of His body,[d] of His flesh and of His bones. 31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”[e] might just be important. Paul quotes the same scripture as Jesus (Genesis 2:24) to make a point.

I think that it is important that marriage is given in Genesis BY GOD to be between ONE MAN and ONE WOMAN, otherwise, Jesus and Paul would have said something like, "For this reason a man (or woman) shall leave his or her father (or mother) and mother (or father) and be joined to his or her partner and the two shall become one flesh." That is simply NOT what they said, I believe that EVERY word in the Bible is there for a reason, and this cannot (and is NOT) an exception. I believe that the belief that homosexuality is an abhorrent, but still allowed by God lifestyle is wrong and anyone who believes so is simply (hopefully) just misinformed.

I hope that what I have said here will allow everyone to see that both Jesus and Paul weighed in on this very important and sacred issue. This does not make homosexuals sub-human or any more a sinner than I am, but it does mean that we (as Christians) need to reach out to them and tell them (and everyone else that is sinning) that what they are doing is wrong and that they need to be saved by Christ Jesus.

Aaron said...

Once again, I think the main point of this entry has been overlooked.

The point isn't whether or not homosexuality/gay marriage are right or wrong. The point is that we have other things to worry about. I'd list examples but there are plenty in the body of the entry.

The world is screwed up. People are dying - literally, dying - to prioritize homosexuality over that is nothing short of a tragedy, and a greater injustice than Gay Marriage could ever be.

StrangelyNormalSteph said...

One word...AMEN! My goodness if only the "Moral Majority" would just shut the H-E-double hockey sticks up about freakin' gay marriage (come on, now abortion affects lives but does gay marriage? NOPE!) and worry about thinks that Jesus did actually talk about like loving others (stopping hate...homophobia is a good example of hate), caring for the sick (health care!) feeding the hungry, etc. I don't agree with homosexuality but for goodness SAKE if they ban gay marriage then why don't they just ban divorce as well? Jesus actually CONDEMNS divorce!

It's so sad when Christians are known more for opposing gay marriage these days then, well, being like Christ.

Aaron said...

You know? I hadn't even thought about divorce. Excellent, excellent point.

StrangelyNormalSteph said...

Well he does! And I know somewhere in Malachi 2 it talks about God hating divorce as well. Yeah, I bring that argument alot. I have a similar one for crazy pro-lifers (I'm anti-abortion for sure but I don't think overturning Roe v. Wade is going to prevent abortion at all)...if abortion is murder then drinking, smoking, etc. while pregnant is child abuse and any woman who does that should be put in jail. It could never happen, that's the hypocrisy, ya know?